Lawsuit over Neurontin
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Posted by: Larry Becnel ®

11/08/2002, 10:42:21

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Today's Wall Street Journal has an article about documents that have surfaced in a suit alleging that the manufacturer's ad agency hyped Neurontin for uses such as pain management, psychiatric disorders, migraine headaches and a condition related to diabetes. According to the Journal, the suit alleges that the ad agency "crossed the line" in trying to promote "off-label" use of Neurontin (an epilepsy drug), even sending agency personnel out to visit physicians to promote sales of the drug. I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this in the months to come.

I haven't checked the site yet, but findlaw.com might have more info on this.

Larry

ADSD

New Orleans






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Larry Becnel Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Dwight Cruikshank ®

11/11/2002, 22:49:26

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Well, Neurontin does work for a lot of different disorders. It's good for epilepsy, for anxiety, as a mood stabilizer, and it helps a lot of people with SD. It certainly works a helluva a lot better for SD than Baclofen. I can't believe neurologist are still barking up that tree. The only reason people on this board know about Neurontin is because I and a couple other people recommended it a few years ago.






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Dwight Cruikshank Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: David Barton (NZ) ®

11/11/2002, 23:33:04

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There was a question (regarding the use of neurontin in treating SD) asked of an expert panel of doctors (Brin, O'Brien, Stacy, Gordon) at the Miami symposium.

All three doctors who answered said they had no information confirming that it was effective for SD, and one compared the recent hype about neurontin to the way drugs like actifed and sudafed were touted as 'cure-alls' in the 1980's.

David Barton (AD/SD, Auckland, NZ)







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Experts
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- David Barton (NZ) Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Narelle Lehane ®

11/12/2002, 01:24:21

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Many "expert" doctors don't seem to very often talk (or listen to be more precise) to patients who have had good results with drugs. My ENT was amused when I first took Neurontin, but quite amazed at the difference it made. Neurontin is being used for neuropathic pain in Australian hospitals with great success, I am presuming by many "experts" - well i'd hope they are anyway! It really makes perfect sense that a drug used to treat a movement disorder where the same neurotransmitters that are thought to be problematic in SD (and in certain pain disorders)are effected, would have some consequences for SD patients (and some more than others considering that everyone's brain chem is unique). I think many of the "experts" in this field have forgotten the neurological aspects of this disease in their (albeit admirable) search for good "physical" outcomes through botox etc. I am no longer taking Neurontin as my surgical outcome makes it unecessary, however for some people it is effective, and any relief is wonderful for SDers. I also have a friend here in Oz with more severe dystonic symptoms who has had absolutely remarkable success with Neurontin, it's been truly amazing - those who know him know what I mean!

Cheers

Narelle

ADSD 17 years - Thyroplasty Surgery (Australia)

PS I do not work for a drug company!!







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Re: Experts
Re: Experts -- Narelle Lehane Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Ida Neary ®

11/12/2002, 08:53:26

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It seems so strange that, although we all seem to have the same disorder, (or types of it) that we would have such different results from treatment. For some Botox works wonderfully well for years and years. For some it doesn't work at all or quits working after a few years.

After 10 years of very successful injections, Botox stopped working for me. I tried Neurontin and I didn't see any results from it at all one way or another. No effects, no side effects. I am happy for the ones it works on, just wish I could get in on it.

Ida

AD/SD 25 years Iowa






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Re: Experts
Re: Re: Experts -- Ida Neary Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Narelle Lehane ®

11/12/2002, 17:32:40

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Dear Ida,

I truly believe that ths is because we all have such unique brain chemistry - that's why neurological disorders are nearly always impossible to "cure".

Hope you find something to help you and give you some relief from the effort of ADSD. Have you treid one of the "new strains" of botox??

Cheers

Narelle







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Re: Experts
Re: Re: Experts -- Narelle Lehane Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Ida Neary ®

11/12/2002, 18:08:26

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I have tried Myobloc with little or no results. Are there others? I know Allergan at one time said they were coming out with a Botox F for those who have become immune to the other strains. My doctor has been trying to get some information, but no one at Allergan seems to know anything about it. If you know of something else I would apprecitate hearing.

Thank you

Ida






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botox
Re: Re: Experts -- Ida Neary Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Narelle Lehane ®

11/12/2002, 23:14:56

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I thought there was a new botox strain (not myobloc) - perhaps you could start a new thread on that question, i'm sure there are those here who would knwo all about this stuff :)

N

x






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Larry Becnel Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Jeff Lovell ®

11/16/2002, 03:46:02

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Hi everyone ~

I've not posted here for ages, mainly because I've been too busy - as a result of my vastly improved health. Just had to comment on Neurontin, however, as it is the reason for my good health.

My understanding is that Neurontin boosts the GABA neurotransmitter - and for some (underline some) of us that boost relieves our symptoms.

I've been taking Neurontin at 900 mg/day plus Artane at 2.5 mg/day for over a year now and have never been better. My SD and also my severe cervical dystonia (retrocollis) are both very well controlled and the movement in my right arm (caused by CP) is also less than before.

Dystonia has a variety of causes, so unfortunately there are many with SD who will not benefit from Neurontin. And I suppose that inappropriate uses have been suggested for this drug, as is so often the case. But that doesn't mean it can't help some of us. I guess I'm proof that it can!

Jeff Down Under






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin (and your travels)
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Jeff Lovell Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Lynne Martinez ®

11/16/2002, 08:27:50

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Congratulations Jeff!

You are so right and in fact (I'm going to say the *s* word again). It's never more evident how different (unique, let's say) and how individual our responses to dystonia(s) and its treatments are, than when so many of us gather in one place - such as last week in Miami (the *symposium*). There truly isn't one of us alike, which is one reason it's so difficult to get the message out, re all forms of dystonia. If it's difficult for us (and our doctors) to get our arms around it, it's REALLY difficult for the general public.

On that subject, I wore my symposium sweatshirt ("Dystonia" - very colorful and attractive) around town yesterday because I had appointments with my otolaryngologist and speech pathologist and wanted to show it off. But, it occurred to me that the slogan on it (which explains dystonia briefly) has little to do with SD because it emphasizes physical pain, and most of us don't have much of that, compared to ST patients. Unique again. However, several people asked to read the message up close, so it's sort of like a lifesize "tri-fold card."

Also, I've read your accounts of your trip around the US, staying with other dystonia patients, and was highly inspired. I remember you from a couple of years back on the Dystonia BB. I'm so glad that what you are doing is working for you. You're an excellent example for all of us.

Thanks, Lynne

PS: If anyone wants info about the shirts (sweatshirt or tee-shirt), write me off the BB. They're being sold by a support group in New Jersey and are quite attractive. ALL proceeds go to dystonia research. Also, if anyone wants to see what they look like first, that info is probably available online also (such as in our pictures in the URL Dee Linda put out). So many of us bought them and wore them Saturday at the medical sessions that we looked like troops of Bobsey twins. ;-).







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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Jeff Lovell Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Dwight Cruikshank ®

11/18/2002, 17:15:59

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Jeff, thank you so much for sharing. I know there are many more like you out there who have been helped by neurontin. Unfortunately, neurologists are not aware of this, or, because it makes no sense to them why the drug would help dystonia, they don't prescribe it. It's largely been by word of mouth that people have discovered its usefulness. If botox doesn't work for you, I'd urge you to give Neurontin a try. It does have some side effects, namely some short term memory loss, but it can really help some people. I think it's a shame that some people on this board put so much blind faith in "professionals." Believe me, both my parents are doctors. I respect them, but I know that there is a helluva a lot they don't know. It makes me sick sometimes the way people on here seem to worship the opinions of doctors. "Doctor Smithers said at the conference that there have been no studies he knows of that show Neurontin to be effective for SD" Because this came out of Dr. Smithers mouth we ought to give it some special respect, eh? And all these people who were worshipping the SLAD dude--now he seems to have ruined several people's voices for good. Doctors don't deserve any special treatment or respect--my familiy is full of them. Use your own brain.






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Dwight Cruikshank Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Narelle Lehane ®

11/19/2002, 00:04:51

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Absolutely!! The concept that doctors can know everything is absurd, especially when we know how little is known about the human brain, where SD originates.

The only way to go forward is to demand information and explanations from doctors and to make informed decisions based on a wide range of sources, not just one or two.

Most Doctors appreciate patients who can think for themselves, and those who don't should not be in the medical profession as they obviously have little regard for people (other than doctors of course!)

Narelle

ADSD 17 years, Australia.






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Dwight Cruikshank Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: mig ®

11/19/2002, 15:00:11

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Dwight, I couldn't agree more with you...so glad you mentioned these points!! BTW, how long did it take before you started to notice the positive effect of Neurontin? I just gradually started taking Neurontin two weeks ago and so far I haven't experienced any side effects.

--modified by mig at Tue, Nov 19, 2002, 15:00:34

--modified by mig at Tue, Nov 19, 2002, 15:01:52







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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- mig Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Dwight Cruikshank ®

11/19/2002, 22:52:22

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I think if neurontin is going to help it should only take a week or so, but you have to have gotten to sufficient dose. For me I notice an improvment that lasts for about five hours with a 600mg dose. I imaginre fo severe SD you might need 900-1200mg in a single dose to notice a difference. It has a very short half-life. I use it before I teach (I teach creative writing classes) and helps for that, but then by the afternoon the effect has pretty much worn off, which is good, because I don't want the cognitive side effects while I'm writing.

Anyway, I'm so glad and relieved that some of you responded positively to what I said. I'd like to know what Mr. Barton thinks, though.







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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- mig Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Dwight Cruikshank ®

11/19/2002, 22:53:10

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I think if neurontin is going to help it should only take a week or so, but you have to have gotten to sufficient dose. For me I notice an improvment that lasts for about five hours with a 600mg dose. I imaginre fo severe SD you might need 900-1200mg in a single dose to notice a difference. It has a very short half-life. I use it before I teach (I teach creative writing classes) and helps for that, but then by the afternoon the effect has pretty much worn off, which is good, because I don't want the cognitive side effects while I'm writing.

Anyway, I'm so glad and relieved that some of you responded positively to what I said. I'd like to know what Mr. Barton thinks, though.







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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Dwight Cruikshank Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Barbara Oberholtzer ®

11/20/2002, 08:33:25

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Dwight,

I respect everyones's right to their own opinion. Having worked for a doctor for 15 years, I have seen both sides. People want results and only good results from any treatment they are offered. Why some things work for some people and not others will always be a mystery. Having had the SLAD surgery two years ago, I was very fortunate that it has worked and made my life so much better. Again, why it works for most of us and not some is a mystery. We all take chances any time we agree to a treatment for our health problems, but it is our choice to make. The doctor I worked with was very caring and spent many extra hours trying to help his patients and he is still our family doctor. He would be the first to admit that he can't help everyone, but he does try. Did we have some angry patients who switched to another doctor, yes we did. Again, that is anyone's choice. Guess I just wanted to say I feel most doctors do deserve respect for the care we receive even if it does not go like we hope. Doctors are only human, not miracle workers and have to follow certain guidelines of the medical profession. You are so right about taking matters in your own hands and investigating every avenue. Had I heard about Neurontin before my surgery, I probably would have tried it since Botox was not helping my voice any longer. Thank goodness for this BB that gives us so much support and insight to something that might help. I wish you well with Neurontin in the future. Barb







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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Barbara Oberholtzer Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Ida Neary ®

11/20/2002, 08:50:50

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Hello Barb

I understand how you feel from seeing the situation from the other side. I, too, am very grateful to have a doctor who is both knowing and caring, but like so many on this board I had to kiss a lot of frogs before meeting the handsome prince.

My disorder went undiagnosed for 10 years. I went to a lot of doctors (frogs) who told me it was emotional. I went to a neurologist, Dr. Cotton from Omaha NE. who pretty much told me to get my life in order and then I would be able to talk. I believed him and worked and worked to get my life in order and then found out that it wasn't that at all and he let me blame myself for something he couldn't diagnose.

My ENT is willing to try things and always listens to me. Botox doesn't work very well for me, either, anymore so we are trying Neurontin and he is going to try another type of injection. He has looked into surgery for me, called Allergan to see if they were working on a different strain of Botox and has, I feel, gone out of his way to try to find something that works. However, I still feel the pain that I endured because of the other doctors who were too busy or too uncaring or too whatever to help me.

Ida

AD/SD 25 years Iowa






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin P.S.
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Ida Neary Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Ida Neary ®

11/20/2002, 09:22:48

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I should have mentioned that I diagnosed my own disorder after reading an article in a magazine. Even then I had to go to a couple of ENTs before finding one that knew that Boystown National Research Hosp. was doing some research on it.

Ida






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin P.S.
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin P.S. -- Ida Neary Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Barbara Oberholtzer ®

11/22/2002, 08:25:02

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Ida,

I know so many took years to have their SD diagnosed. I was so fortunate that the young doc I worked for kept sending me for different tests and specialists until I found the right one to diagnose me. He never once mentioned that it could be psychological (although one of my neighbors suggested nerve pills) and kept pursuing other avenues until we ended up at IU Med Center and Botox. I think I saw a total of five different specialists until just by listening to me, the ENT at IU diagnosed SD. He started me on Botox the very next day and what a blessing it was. All these visits took only a little over a year, so much better than most go through. By the way, the doctor I worked for had never heard of this strange disorder called SD before me. Barb







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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Dwight Cruikshank Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: Steven c Simpson ®

11/22/2002, 23:12:28

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I am one of the dudes that had the SLAD surgery from Dr. Gerald Berke at UCLA. Has anyone been helped by Neurontin after surgey. Does anyone know what it does or how it works?






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Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin
Re: Re: Lawsuit over Neurontin -- Steven c Simpson Top of Thread Archive
Posted by: William T Walter ®

12/11/2002, 22:04:35

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Steven,

I've been on Neurontin. I was prescribed this by my psychiatrist who said it helps with "throat stutters." He was really treating anxiety but I didn't know if SD yet so thought anxiety was the cause. I was on an antidepressant at the time (and have been for a couple years) and Neuronin is use psychiatrically as a "mood stabilizer." It gets the optimum results form an anti-depressant. It is also used for bipolar disorder at times.

Originally it cam ebaout as an anti-seizure medication. I've heard it is also used to help people cope with chronic pain in the face/head/neck. I believe it lessens/decreases nerve activity in some way which might bewhy it helps with SD.

When I was on SD, I did have a higher fatigue level and felt tired a lot. It actually made me feel more socialable, too, whichmight be my own reaction with the anti-depressant. I also put on some weight and was somewhat more lethargic.

Bill

ADSD







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